tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post1650818666137907475..comments2024-02-24T09:52:14.054-08:00Comments on Notes from Halfland: Spoilers: A Note About CoralineShelley Noblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10968333057020378002noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-59910598726710909392009-03-10T13:33:00.000-07:002009-03-10T13:33:00.000-07:00Well, we'll have to disagree that a story doesn't ...Well, we'll have to disagree that a story doesn't need to be personable. And that only a little bit of human touch was lost in this.<BR/><BR/>I nearly walked out of the film in the middle in disgust for how video game crap was being shoved down my throat when I was expecting something that reflected the painstaking efforts that went into to making it.<BR/><BR/>That is the flaw of the film, not the story (which is yet another story). The flaw is the the fundamental decision to make the film look like a cg video game.<BR/><BR/>Great talents made Coraline, with great time and expense, absolutely. But I see no advance in the craft of stop motion as I enjoy it.<BR/><BR/>Like I said, I've decided other people are doing other things. ok.<BR/><BR/>It's like the most soulful song in the world being sung by Britney Spears. I went in for one thing and got another.Shelley Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10968333057020378002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-8834127667043541982009-03-10T13:12:00.000-07:002009-03-10T13:12:00.000-07:00And AMAZINGLY... no quality was lost throughout th...And AMAZINGLY... no quality was lost throughout the entire conversion process. Maybe a little bit of the human touch, but the movie looks fantastic, and the story wasn't very personable to begin with (it's not supposed to be). <BR/><BR/>My only gripe was that the lighting didn't have much contrast. I understand why the lighting was flat; you need to do that to make the characters readable as cartoons. In fact, CG suffers from the same issue-flawless sculptures are hard to dramatically light in a way that feels tactile, and too many lights (fill) spoil the effect. Our eyes are drawn to flaws, and Coraline had none visually, so we'll all looking at something else (in this case, story). That's psychologically affecting. <BR/><BR/>One viewer even commented that by the middle of the film, it started to seem like a video game. Adding to that effect in the 3D version is the fact that there is no discernible grain. CG doesn't have any of that either, hence the comparisons between the two, I suppose. <BR/><BR/>But I love Coraline, and I was invited to try out for it, the experience was wonderful, the animators kind, and the most deserving and proven person I can think of is now running Laika. <BR/><BR/>So it's a good thing that Coraline doesn't succeed in every respect; it would be like eating dessert before dinner! (Mango Milkshakes, anyone?) I think the next film Laika makes will be the real dessert, and this was just the main course. <BR/><BR/>"HERE COMES THE GRAVY TRAIN!")Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-16522580725097875302009-03-10T13:02:00.000-07:002009-03-10T13:02:00.000-07:00fantastically clear breakdown, Don, thanks.I would...fantastically clear breakdown, Don, thanks.<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't care about the back and forth at all if the result looked hand-crafted after going through the huge effort of making it by hand!Shelley Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10968333057020378002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-85644993027419002622009-03-10T12:38:00.000-07:002009-03-10T12:38:00.000-07:00Here are my thoughts on Coraline:To kind of add to...Here are my thoughts on Coraline:<BR/><BR/>To kind of add to what Yuji said: <BR/><BR/>"seems like it went digital to analog back to digital"<BR/><BR/>Then he corrected himself: <BR/><BR/>"it actually started out analog, with sculpted maquettes"<BR/><BR/>However, if you saw it in 2D at the theater, this is what you were seeing: <BR/><BR/>Coraline started out analog<BR/>(sculpted Maquettes by Tony Merrithew and others)<BR/>to digital (sculpts scanned into computer)<BR/> to analog (real puppets posed on real sets)<BR/> back to digital,(shot on machine vision cameras and at least one Nikon D70 DSLR)<BR/> then to analog (35mm film projection)<BR/><BR/>Now here's the kicker: Coraline is released on DVD...back to digital.<BR/><BR/>So, to break it down: <BR/><BR/>analog, digital, analog, digital, analog, digital- it's like watching a tennis match!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-55937142959654823012009-03-02T19:47:00.000-08:002009-03-02T19:47:00.000-08:00HI, Nick!Yep, LOVED the original Russian Corpse Br...HI, Nick!<BR/><BR/>Yep, LOVED the original Russian Corpse Bride tale too.<BR/><BR/>I've come to terms with big budget stop motion/cgi likeness vs. hand-crafted styles.<BR/><BR/>I think what was most upsetting in the shock of seeing Coraline was how unlike stop motion it was, after all the time and effort and funding it had.<BR/><BR/>Different taste and values. I get it now.<BR/><BR/>Piano Tuna! HA! Gah, I love that so hard. Let me be real for a minute, March 15th is an annual deadline. Take your time, unless the approaching deadline makes it arrives sooner!<BR/><BR/>I am thinking about building the undersea set as soon as the main set is done and shooting the underwater scene FIRST! Just so everyone who was kind enough to make a puppet won't have to wait until 2010 to see it!<BR/><BR/>Here I go back to the set... after WEEKS!Shelley Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10968333057020378002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-67945188686020922962009-03-02T19:27:00.000-08:002009-03-02T19:27:00.000-08:00I won't be able to see the film until May 7th appa...I won't be able to see the film until May 7th apparently (thanks for the info G3T), but I've had serious reservations about the character design all along - way too close to The Incredibles. Smooth and slick. I prefer the puppets in Madam Tutli-Putli or One Night in One City. I did enjoy the book though, so the basic material is sound.<BR/>I read up on the source material for Corpse Bride, too, and felt an opportunity was missed... it came from pogroms in eastern europe, where a jewish wedding party would be waylaid and slaughtered, and all that was tidied out of it for the film. But I felt it survived as a film in it's own right, despite the genuine darkness being mostly replaced by a pretend-darkness in a non-threatening no-county-in-particular. So I hope I'll feel Coraline still has a lot to offer.<BR/><BR/>Fish deadline around 15 March? I've just cast the Piano Tuna body, but still have to make fins and paint it. I'd better get on with it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-38661325282170513772009-02-27T15:30:00.000-08:002009-02-27T15:30:00.000-08:00Yeah, but it LOOKED cgi! HA! I don't care if they ...Yeah, but it LOOKED cgi! HA! I don't care if they sculpted it with raw mud with their feet, those puppets looked so polished and sanitary I saw no hand in the hand craft. Maybe the artists involved were just too damn good!<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the article find, Yuji!Shelley Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10968333057020378002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-37455702873091966252009-02-27T09:58:00.000-08:002009-02-27T09:58:00.000-08:00I need to correct myself. I found an article that ...I need to correct myself. I found an article that said this, "Everything started with hand sculpted clay marquettes that were scanned into Maya using a 3D scanner.". So it started as analog! Here's the whole article.<BR/><BR/>http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=4924&page=1Yujihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12060564808521198115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-43330376859333330442009-02-25T08:17:00.000-08:002009-02-25T08:17:00.000-08:00hee. Go ahead, Miss Peggy! LOL! Stop Motion PORN! ...hee. Go ahead, Miss Peggy! LOL! Stop Motion PORN! HA! Comes down to Art vs. Commerce I guess.Shelley Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10968333057020378002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-80837709876957982642009-02-25T06:49:00.000-08:002009-02-25T06:49:00.000-08:00I can't add much that hasn't been said so eloquent...I can't add much that hasn't been said so eloquently here, but thank you for opening the discussion! I loved the book, was disappointed with the CG-ness of the movie. It was kinda like porn with too much vaseline globbed on the lens. I wanted to see the real thing, but got "beauty" instead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-22236927722912975792009-02-25T05:29:00.000-08:002009-02-25T05:29:00.000-08:00Boy, Stephanie, you really hit the nail squarely o...Boy, Stephanie, you really hit the nail squarely on the head with your comment.<BR/><BR/>You have the final word on the matter with that.<BR/><BR/>I think you are 100% correct about the flesh on the bones position the production staff were dealing with. Well said.<BR/><BR/>My expectations were soaring high over seeing Coraline, not for the story but for the stop motion expertise involved and the relatively endless money/time/talent involved. The statistics are stunners, thousands of hands for hundreds of puppets with gabillions of ball joints, etc.<BR/><BR/>I was wrongly expecting a handmade art piece.<BR/><BR/>I would be happy that stop motion was featured in a big main stream (well, nearly) movie---except after all the slickering up it really wasn't stop motion for me.<BR/><BR/>That's all, I swear.Shelley Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10968333057020378002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-84904853479960705072009-02-25T05:10:00.000-08:002009-02-25T05:10:00.000-08:00True, it was all very slick. At the Q&A Neil ...True, it was all very slick. At the Q&A Neil Gaiman was asked -- "Why stop motion, why didn't you do this in CG?" And his response was all about how wonderful it is to think that all the things you see in the film actually existed, that it was all built by hand. A method which he felt suited the story best. And then you could ask, well why didn't you make it LOOK more hand-made, to exaggerate that quality?<BR/><BR/>There's a conflict here which must come with the enormity of making a feature 3d stopmo film. With so much money involved, I'm sure the producers felt insecure about seeing a film that looks too hand-made. The usual charm of stop motion could be seen as a technical imperfection, or cheap, when you're spending that kind of dough. Even if it's done on purpose, that's how it would read, so that's probably what they're afraid of.<BR/><BR/>Or maybe Sellick is trying to overcome the technical problems of stopmo, to erase the glitchiness, as a personal challenge? Or he felt the producers' expectations of not seeing the handmade quality, maybe. He certainly seems to be looking for technological "advancements" in this direction.<BR/><BR/>The slickness didn't bother me too much, but it does bother me a little to think that people might not even know it's stopmo at firsg glance -- and that these days, with CG often being used to simulate a glitchy stopmo style, it can be hard to tell. The CG simulations make me love the glitchy qualities of stopmo even more.<BR/><BR/>I'd love to see a feature stop mo done in a handmade style, too... I guess I saw the film with lowered expectations, because I find it amazing that such a film could be made (and distributed in major theatres!) in the first place.stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14058168113722446790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-71348442112797812342009-02-23T16:52:00.000-08:002009-02-23T16:52:00.000-08:00Hi Stephanie, Your comment got cropped? Oh, no, I ...Hi Stephanie, Your comment got cropped? Oh, no, I was hanging on your every word!<BR/><BR/>You really analyzed the film better than I did. I say right on to your points about the script's failings.<BR/><BR/>Here's the thing, an animator reader here commented privately that they liked all the types of stop motion styles, that it was akin to liking different types of music. You might like folk music (like Halfland) and a good Philharmonic performance (like Coraline) every now and again. An audience member can like different sounds for different reasons. A really smart point I think.<BR/><BR/>BUUuuuuuut, my complaint about Coraline isn't really so much about the script's issues or its visual style or the director and his teams' choices. My chief outrage is how it didn't look like stop motion. Great animation, YES! for a 2D project. Even the incredibly detailed sets could have been drawn for all I got out of seeing them.<BR/><BR/>That's my point. Where was the all important "hand" in this? Maybe the hired hands were too talented to be believed.Shelley Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10968333057020378002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-56526098724544759242009-02-22T06:10:00.000-08:002009-02-22T06:10:00.000-08:00oh no! I got cropped. oh well.Enough complaining...oh no! I got cropped. oh well.<BR/><BR/>Enough complaining -- I'm just jealous of that beautiful theatre set. Sigh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-32767005474656251332009-02-22T06:07:00.000-08:002009-02-22T06:07:00.000-08:00Someone's taken the buttons out of her eyes! ;)Th...Someone's taken the buttons out of her eyes! ;)<BR/><BR/>This was good to read, Shelley -- some solid criticism of Coraline, and coming from a stop motion artist, no less! I had a VERY hard time looking critically at the film, because I left so awe-struck by the visuals that it was hard to explain the teensy dissatisfactions I felt with the storyline. <BR/><BR/>I agree with you that the witch's motivation wasn't clear. I think I would've felt better about the conflict and resolution if the world wasn't the construction of one evil-doer, but rather just some sort of parallel universe where people had no souls (or whatever the "buttons" were supposed to represent.) It didn't make sense, for example, that this witch had constructed everything making up this universe, and yet created a Wybie who needed his mouth sewn shut because of his averse opinions. Why would he have opinions she couldn't approve of IF SHE HAD CREATED HIM? Just one of the loopholes. The conflict came on too quickly, and seemed forced, as if the producers were saying "hey let's wrap it up! Money's a-spendin' here!" There should have been 6 eyes rather than 3 (were these one-eyed ghosts?), unnecessary deus ex machina plot devices like the magic viewfinder, the mysterious grandmother who knows the story of the house yet isn't at all helpful, etc...<BR/><BR/>Holes I had overlooked while watching; too enthralled by the vaudevillians, the theatre set (waaaah! too beautiful!!!) and that lacy intro. Damn, that was good. <BR/><BR/>If this illusory world were something like The Matrix, where it had some intrinsic reason for being, independent of what one particular character wants, it would have made more sense.<BR/><BR/>I didn't need to see the witch transform, either -- again, if she is creating this universe, why does she let the illusions fall apart? <BR/><BR/>This is how I've unraveled my own feelings of dissatisfaction in the story -- I've heard other people say it wrapped up too fast, that the white background was a cop out,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-66164306163882250312009-02-20T22:30:00.000-08:002009-02-20T22:30:00.000-08:00Hey Yuji! Man, I'm so glad you saw it so we can di...Hey Yuji! Man, I'm so glad you saw it so we can dish. I think you make a stellar point there about Coraline being essentially cgi generated stopmotion?! A moron of oxy proportion. Sure looked that way to me.<BR/><BR/>really good expressions on puppet faces? meh. I saw absolutely NO ADVANTAGE in expression in Coraline over a total cgi animation! NOTHING? Why go through the agony of hand wrought frame by frame for something that for all the world looks and behaves exactly like 2D?!<BR/><BR/>Even Ron Cole's cable control frame by frame work retains a hand made feel. I see no advancement in the craft with what Laika (formerly Will Vinton's) has done.<BR/><BR/>BUT-- I would like to add here that all this discussion has given me a place to sort out my thoughts about it and my new bottomline is that. What Coraline is trying to do has less than zero to do with me and what I'm trying to do. Even though we both are using the medium of Stop motion, that's where any similarity ends. I am not in the film industry--thank GOD! I'm just making my art, personal art, meaningful only to me ultimately. And that is more than enough.Shelley Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10968333057020378002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-35543089425349459322009-02-20T22:15:00.000-08:002009-02-20T22:15:00.000-08:00Finally got to see the movie today! Technically, i...Finally got to see the movie today! Technically, it was great. Animation was fantastic. Puppets, sets, lighting all top notch. Story wise, it was a little thin. Girl is bored and goes off into fantasy land and the people there wants to keep her there. I can see why it then became a visual/action movie. After I got comfortable with what the film was going to be, I just sat back and enjoyed the ride so to speak. I may be wrong, but did the other world only exist in her head? She dreamed it all right?<BR/><BR/>About the face replacements technique. Did they just cross the line of CG and stop motion? If you create a face using computers and create a real object and take a picture of it, is it still not CGI? Seems like it went digital to analog back to digital. Would you get the same results if the puppets had a green screen face to be replaced later in CGI? The advantage of the Coraline technique would be that the face would be in the real lighting with the rest of the puppet. Whatever the case may be, good or bad, it has certainly moved stop motion forward. It is now possible to get really good expressions on puppets.Yujihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12060564808521198115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-44232319312231919542009-02-19T15:02:00.000-08:002009-02-19T15:02:00.000-08:00I knew it before, but these conversations with you...I knew it before, but these conversations with you have provided me with even greater clarity. Halfland has NOTHING to do with the film industry. What a relief!<BR/><BR/>Yes! Clouds shaped almost like other things and... MOVING! w00t!Shelley Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10968333057020378002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-83462375029067480882009-02-19T14:33:00.000-08:002009-02-19T14:33:00.000-08:00I think if someone is working within the industry,...I think if someone is working within the industry, 'It's only business, it's not personal' is an excellent maxim. Gawd, if you took everything personally...<BR/><BR/>I would imagine the clouds in HalfLand to be the shapes of other things? Almost like dreams themselves.G3T Filmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04439482429191868151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-58437920353469254172009-02-19T08:27:00.000-08:002009-02-19T08:27:00.000-08:00Herman!Seriously, Rich, that's one interesting ass...Herman!<BR/><BR/>Seriously, Rich, that's one interesting assertion you put out there. That could be part of the movie problem. The really creative visionary artists could only be hired to make initial sketches for mood and style. Logic would dictate that would be enough but pudding eating proves something fundamentally important is in fact being lost in the big movie projects.<BR/><BR/>I was reading an article about the rise and fall of New Line Pictures yesterday and Shayne had a line whenever directors wanted more creative control. He'd say, "The Medici Film Company is down the street." Meaning that he was running a commercial film business not one to satisfy creative visions.<BR/><BR/>Exactly.<BR/><BR/>That's really the problem, or at least the true facts in the industry. It's only business, it's not personal.<BR/><BR/>On your other good point, I was thinking yesterday in a garden, as I was inspired by watching clouds floating gently behind a tree, how to rig clouds in Halfland. I thought of how much better this film piece will be because of all the years I've spent developing the concepts.<BR/><BR/>More action here will get it done.Shelley Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10968333057020378002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-27892706460137128982009-02-19T00:48:00.000-08:002009-02-19T00:48:00.000-08:00Oh... Herman!Oh... Herman!G3T Filmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04439482429191868151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-53582839333859527302009-02-19T00:47:00.000-08:002009-02-19T00:47:00.000-08:00Ha! Noooooo, I was just being silly.To play devil...Ha! Noooooo, I was just being silly.<BR/><BR/>To play devils advocate, I don't think artwork by committee has any bearing on the authenticity of characters. After all even some of the great Auteurs of the last century are failing in this respect during he naughties. And the great studio films were often rightfully accused of different departments having no idea what each other were doing until they turned up on set.<BR/><BR/>Maybe it's just that the really talented people are charging too much money these days. Not that the film becomes a paycheck, just that it shortens the amount of time you can have their influence on the production so they're making more decisions that aren't digested properly by the greater crew which makes the execution more haphazard. <BR/><BR/>Even the most inspired ideas need time to be dreamed over.G3T Filmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04439482429191868151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-80635122369266139152009-02-18T14:27:00.000-08:002009-02-18T14:27:00.000-08:00Alright, alright new post later....Herman!Alright, alright new post later....<BR/><BR/><BR/>Herman!Shelley Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10968333057020378002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-14646615467701789702009-02-18T14:23:00.000-08:002009-02-18T14:23:00.000-08:00Herman!Herman!G3T Filmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04439482429191868151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25158433.post-33678230760831400942009-02-17T22:26:00.000-08:002009-02-17T22:26:00.000-08:00Hi Justin, I guess the inspiration I could take fr...Hi Justin, I guess the inspiration I could take from it is that other people love stop motion too.<BR/><BR/>Yeah, the heart was missing for me. Even the things that could have been wonderful, like the inventive meal at the other mother's house with the gravy train, etc. or the imaginative theater show and mouse circus, or the endless walk.<BR/><BR/>But even these lighter-hearted things were layered with black overtones that wasted the work for me. I'm glad you got so much joy from it though.<BR/><BR/>Hi GinaK! I think you are right on, on both points. Very hard to keep a meaningful heartfelt vision when you have hundreds of hands working and are trying to be technically sensational. Maybe more women in higher control positions would give projects like this more heart, although it's doubtful based on what I've seen.<BR/><BR/>Usually, we get tough men-like women in power positions instead of project (and governments) getting softer and kinder.<BR/><BR/>I don't think it's ultimately about gender. The shapes of our pink fleshy parts don't make us man or woman, right? I think it comes down to the individual's nature/sensitivity/consciousness, perhaps. Gender on a spectrum.Shelley Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10968333057020378002noreply@blogger.com